tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post2924012275195651528..comments2023-07-16T22:32:18.940+09:30Comments on cellar door. we might as well be a symphony.: Bomb Girls - Things are going so well.cathy leaveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-67992867946618041482022-11-20T16:57:41.023+10:302022-11-20T16:57:41.023+10:30It's an interesting point you make about the p...It's an interesting point you make about the possible asexual reading – it’s a possibility, but maybe, considering how much physical abuse Kate has suffered, it would be impossible to disentangle that trauma from how she reacts to physical intimacy (noteworthy that when she does have sex with Ivan, it’s blessedly off-screen). <br /><br />If you’re reading the reactions to her character at the time (which, as I’ve said, were often frustrating to me, and sometimes I still stumble over people whose opinions I otherwise respect expressing their hatred for Kate and I still don’t get it), it’s maybe important to keep in mind the context. I remember that Bomb Girls was released at a point in time where a lot of people felt let down by other shows with queer characters, and there was definitely a feeling that these stories weren’t necessarily safe with the writers who created them (Skins especially, gosh). Or maybe a more generous read would be that some fans wanted Betty to be happy a lot more quickly than the show was allowing her to be. It would be an incredibly cynical read of everything that happens between Kate and Betty to think that it was anything but a slow-burn love story, and I’ve not once felt that anyone who was part of the team there had the intention to be cynical (even though what happens with Vera in the film is cruel). <br />cathy leaveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-78611202049151101512022-11-20T16:57:11.913+10:302022-11-20T16:57:11.913+10:30One day I’ll go back and watch the whole show agai...One day I’ll go back and watch the whole show again, but I haven’t yet so this response is based on what I remember. The main reason why I’ve never read Kate as straight is because of different her relationship to Betty is to every other friendship she builds on the show. She is new to all of it – it’s obvious that’s she’s never had any kind of relationship before that was outside of her father’s world. Every interaction with Betty is full of intimacy and trust. One of the first thing they do together is dance – and I think Kate knows about Betty fairly early on, and understands more about her than she ever voices. I’ve been wondering about what kind of preacher her father was, if he would have raved against homosexuality (I’m not sure if historically, that would have been something that a religious extremist would have thought to rave against in the 1940s), if Kate would have learned early on that being gay is a sin or if the concept of being gay just didn’t exist in her world. Her father seems to resent any kind of desire she expresses, regardless of who it is directed towards. I think what Kate has been taught is a very narrow understanding of what kind of life is acceptable for her to lead, and pretty much everything she does on the show transgresses this understanding – running away, working a man’s job, reclaiming music. I don’t think that she would even have the concept of thinking of herself as “straight” in the sense that we mean it today, where it exists in relation to being queer. Kate’s binary is her dad’s version of her future and a very hazy idea of what she wants for herself, that grows and grows as the series progresses. <br />I’m trying to find the right words to articulate this, but in a way Kate can’t be the straight girl who inadvertently flirts, because she approaches every new experience that she has with complete emotional authenticity (until she panics, and everything with Ivan happens). She’s not trying to mislead Betty to assure her support, she’s not flirting as a thrill, or because it makes her feel wanted. When she sings to Betty, it’s because she is expressing genuine feelings that she has in that moment in a medium that she has just reclaimed (and we know how difficult that is for her) – and the scene is downright romantic! Especially in the context of how Kate is only finding a language to express romantic feelings. What she has with Gladys is a friendship (even if Gladys is closer with Betty than with her), and I think it’s pretty clear on the show that there is a difference between the closeness she has with Betty and the easy rapport she forms with Gladys, and even Leon (there’s no subtext there, no physical affection). It’s a disservice to her as a character to read all of her previous interaction with Betty from the perspective of the non-reciprocated kiss. Betty doesn’t ask for her consent, it’s in a public place, and I think it comes a little bit out of nowhere for Kate – transgressing a boundary, if you will. She’s not there yet. And part of learning about the world is unfortunately also finding out that her dad isn’t the only one with really strict ideas about the kind of life that a woman should lead – her whole relationship with Ivan is out of panic, and she never ever seems as comfortable or as intimate with him as she is with Betty. <br />cathy leaveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-58450473389085408032022-11-19T10:09:14.890+10:302022-11-19T10:09:14.890+10:30Thank you so much for your thoughtful response and...Thank you so much for your thoughtful response and being willing to discuss this after so many years. I'm quite late to the party, but I find their relationship so, so satisfying (especially pre-kiss). I've always found it easy to see Kate as not straight, but the more I've read others' reviews and thoughts, the more I can also see her as a straight girl who just unknowingly flirts with other women--someone who is lonely and desires a best friend but nothing more. Seeing so many LGBT reviewers express anger and frustration at Kate, and not like her character (seeing her as the straight girl leading Betty on) really makes me sad. Would you be willing to explain just why you see Kate as not straight, from the very beginning of the series? Obviously you and others have made great points above, but I'd like to hear your thoughts specifically.<br /><br />I've watched that first kiss scene over and over, and I just can't tell if Kate reciprocates for a second, as many seem to see. Betty certainly comes on strong. And yes--Betty is so easy to love. :)<br /><br />As someone who has lots of experience with asexuality and the split attraction model, I sometimes wonder too if Kate could be asexual and romantically attracted to women. Just my thought, since I see so much of myself in her. Of course her sexuality could also be repressed, which is probably statistically more likely.<br /><br /><br />Yes, that slow buildup was so great! I would have liked to see how the writers/producers would have handled it in later seasons.ehullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09337762746093452338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-90657169692345990982022-11-19T10:03:53.810+10:302022-11-19T10:03:53.810+10:30Thank you so much for such a thoughtful response a...Thank you so much for such a thoughtful response and being willing to discuss this so many years later. I dearly wish there had been more seasons. I found it quite easy to see Kate as not straight, too, but as I read others' reviews and thoughts, I could also see her as just a straight woman who unknowingly flirts with other women but doesn't want anything sexual with them--someone who is lonely, searching for a best friend but nothing more. However, I don't think her romantic inclinations toward women can be denied. Yet, I still find myself wondering, sometimes, if she really is just straight and confused (because of her upbringing). Would you be willing to detail why you see Kate, from the beginning of the series, as not straight? Obviously you and others have made great points above, but I'd like to hear your specific thoughts as to why she's not just a flirty straight woman. :)<br /><br />I've watched that first kiss over and over, and I still have trouble seeing that Kate reciprocates, as some have said she does. Betty does seem to come on quite strong. <br /><br />I will say that seeing so many LGBT reviewers call Kate straight and get so upset at her and the storyline makes me sad.<br /><br />As someone who has a lot of experience with asexuality and the split attraction model, I can't help wondering if Kate is asexual but romantically attracted to women. Just my thoughts, since I see so much of myself in her. Of course, she could be very sexually repressed, too, and the odds of that are likely better.<br /><br />Yes, that slow journey was so wonderful! I would have loved to have seen it continue, and discover where it ended up.<br /><br />ehullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09337762746093452338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-7658676620202219082022-11-16T15:40:11.060+10:302022-11-16T15:40:11.060+10:30Hi there; I don't know if you're still int...Hi there; I don't know if you're still interested in Bomb Girls and/or willing to discuss it (particularly Kate and Betty), but I just discovered the show a few years ago and I am absolutely fascinated by Kate, and her and Betty's relationship. However, I find myself torn between viewing her as a possibly-not-straight character, as you all have so eloquently elaborated on, and as entirely straight (which is more annoying, to me, considering her actions toward Betty). I really relate to Kate and see a lot of myself in her, including realizing, slowly, that I'm not straight. I would love to hear your interpretation and analysis of Kate as a character (and Kate and Betty's relationship) from the beginning. What conclusions(s) have you come to, and why? Would you be willing to discuss this?<br /><br />I've really enjoyed your great analysis, and thank you!ehullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09337762746093452338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-87765346079560500182013-03-02T01:10:50.523+10:302013-03-02T01:10:50.523+10:30That's a great point, the comparison between t...That's a great point, the comparison between the Withams and the Corbetts. There's also the fact that Adele and Rollie are so concerned about how things appear to the public in terms of what Gladys does (and I'm pretty sure that Adele never considered a divorce because it would have been scandalous for someone in their social class), while Lorna and Bob simply don't have that luxury because they would have no roof over their head and no food on their table if Lorna didn't work. Gladys revolution against her parents' world is a brave choice, but Lorna probably couldn't help but break some social conventions when she became the breadwinner of the family. I am assuming she must have been working somewhere else before the war - or maybe Vic Mu produced something else before since she's already risen so high in the hierarchy? Adele is similar to Lorna inasfar as she's mastered her particular sphere perfectly - quietly manipulating Rollie to get what she wants (what's that line about Versailles in the first season?)- but it comes at a price, and it certainly isn't what Gladys wants. <br>Regarding Bob's reaction to Sheila wanting to become a doctor: I think on the one hand he is a pessimist, and he only sees the obstacles in her way and how hard she'd have to struggle to make it, on the other hand, it's all connected to his disability and feeling of inadequacy. <br>I'm really hoping for Leon to get his very own story at least in the third season. They didn't really tackle the issue of racism with Reggie, since the discrimination she suffered from that landlady was only hinted at.cathy leaveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-66100887442195405012013-02-25T00:42:44.317+10:302013-02-25T00:42:44.317+10:30Totally agree. People watch Mad Men and judge it a...Totally agree. People watch Mad Men and judge it according to the mores of the times it portrays but then watch BG (happening 30-40 very important years before) and somehow expect it to be the the real l word. But even if you forget about that, one's sexuality and love for another person are intimate things, poetry and symbolism rather than arid prose, no matter when they happen. So I can only think that people who deny Kate her feelings for Betty are so stuck in sexual identity politics that they have lost sense of what it's all about. <br><br>Same her about Vera, never would have thought after first episode that I would grow to like her so much. We might not get to see what happens with the VicMu girls after the war is over but I'd bet that Vera would be running the factory, now producing parts for the nuclear industry or something. <br><br>It's interesting with Bob how he's past many of the silly things that people around him worry about (Lorna about her sons being heros, Lorna about Marco being 'foreign', Gene about killing 'the enemy, Sheila dating a 'foreign' guy) because Bob has seen what matters and what doesn't, war has broken down those barriers for him. But he did resist initially Sheila's becoming a doctor. Advancement of women still needed to happen for him as for the others. <br>Of course, he's not the sexist/misogynist that Gladys' father is (at least initially) and not just because he's in a wheelchair (and gosh, what a rudimentary one!). Lorna is much more his equal than Adele ever will be to Rollie. I doubt that Lorna would have put up with Bob's infidelity the way Adele seems to have done with Rollie's. Adele is Rollie's wife much more and before she is Gladys' mother. <br>Another layer in this show, the parallel between the Corbett marriage and the Witham one and how they react to the changing times.<br>Yes, this second war brings Bob into the light and into the world, brings the times in line with Bob much as it pushes Rollie into the background, consigns him (and Vernon) to history. <br>Bob is part of the first minority that the world at the time doesn't have a place for: that of the disabled. He's kept in his place by this until he decided to turn the table on the world/society and make his place, just like the girls are doing. In a way, it's the women's struggle and progress that saves Bob as well..<br>Shows that portray this interwar period usually concentrate on the Withams of this world and it's nice to have the Corbetts at centre stage as it was them indeed to changed the times much more than the Withams. We start with the Withams and their large, open surroundings and with the Corbetts and their small, dim surroundings and as we progress it's the Withams' world that becomes smaller and smaller and the Corbetts who make the kite fly.<br><br>We still need Marco to break through and Leon to move from the shadows of the store room, but we've come a long way.hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-70165378763928225192013-02-23T05:54:30.684+10:302013-02-23T05:54:30.684+10:30"Everybody trying to put and keep everybody i...<i>"Everybody trying to put and keep everybody in their place"</i><br><br>YES!! There's that, and then the contrast of the growing camaraderie between the women. It's a constant struggle, and it's not just women vs. men, rich people vs. people, it's way more complex (just the mere fact that Mrs Witham and Lorna would find common ground to keep Gladys in her place!), which the show portrays beautifully. Gladys constantly pushes the boundaries but the show also calls her out on her privilege, which I admire - she learns that the thing that she's taken for granted all her life aren't a reality for everyone (even though that's mostly done as comic relief, it's still great - the hot water, the telephone, not being able to make omelettes because they've always had staff to do that). I'm imagining how her story will continue. She had this idea of not repeating the mistakes her parents made in their marriage, to live a different life with James, and now all of that is gone, and worse, her mother just told her that she WAS repeating her father's mistakes by cheating on her fiancé. That's gonna have some tough fall-out. And then there's VERA!! That's the most literal attempt of breaking social barriers, isn't it? If you'd told me that I would have so many feelings about Vera Burr after the first episode of the show...<br>I also recently had a discussion with someone about Bob, because the Corbett marriage fascinates me to no end (and the ability of the show to attract such a diverse audience - I managed to get a really good friend into the show and now her mother is also watching!), and isn't the pure symbolism of Bob, who's been bound to a wheelchair since the war and retreated from the world, working at a NEWS-STAND (the most exposed you could be to what happens in the world, probably), just amazing? And the contrast between Bob, following events in the gloomy living room (for some reason they always made the Corbett's house seem so dim, until this season) and him handing out newspapers outside. Layers upon layers.<br><br>(oh, I see, there's a character limit with comments. Well that's brand new information...)cathy leaveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-23031154267268205532013-02-23T05:54:08.529+10:302013-02-23T05:54:08.529+10:30I think Kate's and Betty's story is, plain...I think Kate's and Betty's story is, plainly and simply (as said by the creators, repeatedly) a love story. You've perfectly recounted all the little moments that show how much they care about each other. I'd maybe argue that the falling-in-love part of the story already happened in the first season. It's hard for me to understand how their relationship can be read in any other way. It's astounding when people claim that Kate is straight, when both of their stories is essentially about the fact that they live in a society that makes the statement "I am gay" impossible to say out loud - even for Betty, who is better equipped because she's lived with the certainty for a while now - even with Gladys, she can't communicate about it clearly, even with Teresa, she speaks in code. Not that there's much point in trying to define Kate's sexuality when she doesn't have the tools (or the freedom, rather) to do it herself. <br>Regarding Vernon... it's maybe not even that important to think about what the bible says specifically, someone like Vernon would use whatever reason he can find to remain in complete control of his daughter. We already know he was selective. And again, this is pure speculation, but I don't think he would have ever married her off, he had the idea that she would just stay with him forever (I don't think we'll ever know what form his abusive took exactly, but the thought of a father whipping his daughter, which the scars on her back indicated, is harrowing enough). Religion is a tool that he uses to gain power. Losing his daughter to another man was the thing that he feared the most, so he took the necessary steps to make that as impossible as he could. I also have to relativise the "Kate isn't naive" statement because I just remembered how she approached the guy who pretended that he sang with her - and that seems surprisingly confident and forward for someone who was punished so cruelly just for looking at a soldier (and she doesn't have any issues talking to Leon - it's really only when there is a romantic context that she doesn't know how to handle herself, Gene was the first example, or maybe the way she freaked out on her first day when she dropped the amatol). It would be interesting to see her interactions with Ivan (Isn't it peculiar that Kate would ask Betty to be there for a date with him, even though it was under the pretence of balancing guys/girls? We know that they've been on dates without Betty being present, but we've never really seen any of them. Have they even kissed yet?)cathy leaveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-78952219717951550242013-02-21T09:53:15.013+10:302013-02-21T09:53:15.013+10:30ok, final thoughts on Kate and the boys:In the fir...ok, final thoughts on Kate and the boys:<br>In the first episode she knows how to look after the man that nods at her, so much so that it sets Vernon on fire<br>When it comes to getting her security clearance and betty tells her that the man she knows might expect pay in something else other than money Kate has no qualms about that and she says 'let me worry about the price' (that's kinda brave)<br>She knows what the photographer is going to do with the pictures, she calls him a pornographer.<br>She has a problem with what he's doing but more so with the fact that she's helping him do that<br>When she is curious about the man that sang with her in the store room, she has no hesitationin wondering around the canteen looking at the men there and then going to a group of men and initiating a conversation with one of them (that's kind of brave for a girl who wasn't allowed to talk to the boys). Perhaps she's in her element here because it's about singing (which is the definition of pure in Kate's mind, 'God's gift') and she only gets awkward when it comes to boys and sex. <br><br>and about Kate, Vernon and religion:<br>After Kate comes back from the the photographer, her internalized guilt is expressed as a vision of her father drowing her while reciting the passage from Deuteronomy 22:13-21 which talks about stoning a woman for not being a virgin:<br>http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/stone-woman-not-being-virgin<br>When Vernon finds her, he scolds her for the same thing, the photographs because in Vernon's world having any sort of sexual desires (actually any sort of desires other than the one for singing with him and obeying him) is equal to being a whore.<br>So deep in Kate's mind there's this ingrained belief that sex is dirty. Is that why she is for all intents and purposes in a loving relationship with Betty and it's only when sex comes into it that there is a problem? (not because it's sex with Betty, just because it's sex). She has no problem with the intimacy with Betty, the more of it the better, just with the physical expression.<br><br>Furthermore, is this because the relationship with Vernon, due to his abuse and his paranoia (for being totally in control of Kate's body and soul), was as close as a sexual relationship would be and it was just the abscence of sex that was keeping it from veering into the 'abomination' of incest? Is Kate scared of sex because of this as well? <br><br>Ah and forgot to mention something important, in the 8th scene, at the filming of the newsreel, when Betty says that she wants a house like that for herself (so not for herself and a man) to share with housemates, Kate says 'you're on'<br>So Kate has said that she is so lucky so have met Betty, that she sees Betty as a hero, that she likes her, she wants to dance with Betty, she spends almost all her time with Betty, her heart stops at the thought and sight of Betty being hurt, she considers Betty her true family, she wants to move in with her, live with her. <br>I don't know about other people, but even I wouldn't say, do, feel all these for a friend, much as I love them. <br><br>APOLOGIES for the long posts! This is what happens when you watch a show as rich and perfect as BG, you keep finding meaning in ithubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-88349112344326459442013-02-21T08:33:57.411+10:302013-02-21T08:33:57.411+10:3010th scene, at the factory, after Gladys' fath...10th scene, at the factory, after Gladys' father comes in and causes an incident on the line at VicMu<br>Kate: when i saw those projectiles swinging at you my heart stopped<br>and then they rub each other's hands<br><br>11th scene (last episode at the first series and when series two was not yet a given), at the bar, Kate singing with Leon at the piano, Leon probes her about her singing a happy song with a sad voice, Kate offers that she's thinking of the American sailors, Leon blasts her excuse with 'it seems to me that your battles are a lot closer to home', Kate responds 'You're just like Betty'<br>Betty's, who has been in the background during the song (and importantly she was there, cause like I said, these two are always together) says 'except that he's prettier'. Leon goes to the bar up to get some drinks, Betty comes from the bar to the piano to sit next to Kate (god, this show is so perfectly theatrical)<br>Remember that what follows happens after Vernon appeared, so Kate is already taken back to Marion's world.<br>Still, when Betty sits down at the piano, Kate moves closer to her, tells Betty that she should be lying down, starts to massage her sour shoulder and asks if it hurts (projecting, because she is hurting inside, hence the sad song)<br>Betty says nah, it feels good... (referring to everything about her and Kate)<br>She takes Kate's had, kisses it (in the palm, the same palm that Vernon tried to crush in the first episode) and tells Kate that she really likes her<br>Kate, with the same slightly awkward look on her face that she had when Betty suggested the sleepover, responds that she likes her too<br>And then Betty, unlike in the scene with the sleepover, in private, the first time, this time, in public, she is ready to come out with her love for Kate, this time Betty leans over and kisses Kate. <br>Kate for a brief moment responds and then she freaks out<br>And then later on she leaves with Vernon, back to the world she said she was never going back to.<br><br>I think Kate wouldn't have freaked out had it not been for Vernon appearing. But credit to the writers for playing this right, for not making this a happy end because life doesn't work that way. When you live in the environment that Kate lived in, it is a long long long struggle to free yourself. You struggle even when you've got a 'hero' like Betty struggling there with you and for you.<br>The writters could have, not knowing at that point in time whether there will be a second series or not, to give a happy ending. But again, they kept the writing tight and said no, somebody like Kate would not yet be ready, it's just the second step. Kate needed to kill the Vernon in her head and this is not easy. This is still a struggle even after he's physically dead so she certainly wasn't going to be ready while he was alive and the fear of having been found by him had just been confronted only days before. Vernon finding her and Kate confronting that fear is step 3.<br>Step 4 is Kate coming back to Betty, step 5 is Kate dealing with Teresa being there, step 6 will be letting the thought of her love for Betty exist in her head and step 7 will be her being with Betty. And that's how the world was made in 7 days, the seventh being the one when God rested and admired his creation.hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-87434256823135325752013-02-21T07:55:30.131+10:302013-02-21T07:55:30.131+10:307th scene, Kate and Betty at the photographer agai...7th scene, Kate and Betty at the photographer again, this time to collect the security clearance:<br>The photographer gives Kate a copy of the final photos, the ones that will be published, Kate is horrified again at the thought but then they're off to the party. After the party they're sitting on Betty's bed admiring how good Kate looks in those photos. <br>Kate almost can't believe that's her in the photos<br>betty remarks that 'that's the new you'<br>and says 'this is for you'<br>and gives Kate the hairpin Kate was eyeing earlier at the party but didn't have the money to buy<br>Kate is all excited about the hairpin<br>and tells Betty 'I am soo lucky I met you'<br><br>so Betty sees an opening and says <br>you know those nightmares you're having<br>if you ever want to sleep over here<br>and Kate responds, still smiling that that's so kind, <br>but she thinks she'll be having better dreams now<br><br>ahh, Betty in this scene, poor soul, she retreats and just says well, that's grand.<br>Kate gives her a warm hug, I think even a kiss on the head whilst she's hugging her, says 'hmm, it was a fun dance'<br>they say goodnight, Kate walks out, leaving Betty on the bed looking at Kate's pictures (which interestingly Kate left there) all smitten and falling in love with Kate<br><br>I think this is the first moment when Kate knows and half of me even thinks that there is a moment of lingering on her part in this scene, waiting to see if Betty does do something. But Betty doesn't and it's totally understandable, poor soul, she's struggling as well. There's the tiny bit of awkwardness in Kate voice wheh she says about better dreams, it's different than before when she said that she's so lucky to have met Betty. There's also a very very subtle hint of something on Kate's face when Betty makes the sleepover suggestion. BUT, Kate is not scared by the realization and she doesn't run away. All the other scenes, the more clear cut ones of Betty's love for Kate and Kate responding follow after this one. <br><br>8th scene, filming for the newsreel, at the imaginary house<br>It's just Kate there with/for Betty, in a nice parallel to the scene at the photographer<br>Betty is uncomfortable with the set-up for the scene as the one that people will see<br>Kate comforts her: 'they're all going to see what I see, a hero'<br><br>9th scene:<br>later on, after the viewing at VicMu, Kate and Betty in Kate's bed (cause, you know, these two are made to be in bed together!), in a nice parallel to them looking at Kate's photos, Kate being upset with them and Betty comforting Kate;<br>Betty is all upset about the film<br>Kate: I don't care what other people think, I thought you were great<br>Betty: I know I'd never be that girl onnscreen<br>Kate: you wouldn't want to<br>Betty: thing is, sometimes I would, make so many things easier<br>Kate: (admonishing her) betty...(stop with the nonsense)<br>Betty: look at you, you're here a month already and you fit right in<br>Kate: (very sure of what she says) you don't need everybody liking you, just the ones that matterhubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-37216625575516225222013-02-21T07:40:49.628+10:302013-02-21T07:40:49.628+10:301st scene that stuck to my mind, apart the one wit...1st scene that stuck to my mind, apart the one with Kate just arriving at the house and Betty helping her with the door, is the one outside the factory, the girls (Betty, Kate, Vera, Edith) are smoking before shift, Gladys arrives, they're making conversation and Vera says 'soldiers all want a factory girl' and then we cut to Kate looking at Betty..<br><br>2nd scene (still first episode, so not even a few weeks there), at VicMu:<br>Kate asks Betty if she wants to the party that night<br>Betty: 'I don't go anywhere near the ocean...there's german submarines, don't you read the papers'<br>Kate, really sweetly, trying not to upset Betty, 'except I think it's not the ocean, just a big lake'<br>Betty: well, it's still water.<br>And then of course she goes, like she will go all the other times with Kate, after Kate. And she does this because Kate keeps wanting her everywhere with her.<br>The only time Betty says no is in the last episode. <br><br>3rd scene, girls talking in the canteen:<br>Kate: so...do soldiers dance with all the girls?<br>Vera: you'll go home with as many requests for marriage<br>kate: oh, I hardly think<br>so Kate is interested as she always is in the dancing (hence Betty's use of 'find yourself somebody else to dance with' as substitute for breaking up)<br>also Kate is not after marriage with a soldier<br><br>4th scene, at the party, Betty and Kate standing next to each other, everybody else further away, dancing, drinking, etc:<br>There's some guys passing by, Kate makes some dancing movements<br>Betty's all swagger, just sittin' and watchin' and she asks Kate: 'you dance much?'<br>Kate: 'oh lots ...by myself'<br><br>5th scene, same party, later on<br>Two women step onto the dance floor for a slow one and Kate's eyes, as she follows the women, get bigger and bigger (it's really quite funny). She then turns to Betty, not hesitant at all and says: 'Do you want to try a twirl?'<br>She says this in exactly the same sweet, enthusiastic, matter of fact tone she talks about the jitterbug in the last episode.<br>Betty looks at her surprised (it might have been the first time a girl has asked her to dance, it doesn't seem she's surprised that it's Kate asking) but excited at the idea as well<br>Kate continues confidently and takes Betty's hands and spins her and then continues to lead whilst slowly getting closer to Betty<br><br>6th scene, at the photographer:<br>Kate doesn't know what to do with herself, is embarrased, tries to cover her body with her hands<br>Betty says 'don't look at him, focus on me'<br>And hello kitten! Kate opens up, knows what to do, just like later on, when Marco tries to teach her how to flirt, she can't touch him or laugh normally at his jokes but when Marco asks her to do it with Betty she's fine, no problem<br>There's a minute at the photographer when they're having FUN, just like later on Kate responds to Betty's kiss for a moment<br>The hotographer ruins the moment by saying that 'Kate Andrews is gonna be comforting a lot of lonely servicemen'<br>the look of embarassament on Betty's face when he says that, knowing what that would do to Kate...hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-71617758494859093442013-02-21T07:38:53.100+10:302013-02-21T07:38:53.100+10:30The second thing that struck me on second viewing:...The second thing that struck me on second viewing: how horrible people were to each other (in varying degrees, but still), everybody trying to put and keep everybody in their place. Gladys' father to her, Gladys' mother to her, Lorna to her daughter, Lorna to Marco, the boys to the girls, factory manager to employees, authorities to Marco, Vernon to Kate, rich people to everybody else and so on.<br><br>Also was struck me and was HOW brave Gladys has been and how many things she pushes against. She tries to be decent, to do the right thing, to make other people see and do the right thing, she's progessive, wants more rights for everybody, pushes for barriers to come down. Over and over and over again, risking everything in the process and never bowing: her status, the relationship with her family, her fiancee, her friends, her position at the factory, her livelihood, her safety, everything. I am in complete AWE of Gladys and kept wanting over the episodes to give her a hug, to tell her what a heroine of feminism she is. You could write a book just on Gladys!<br><br>ok, now onto Kate and Betty and why I think there's no doubt about Kate's feelings for Betty. I mean, once they meet, these two are hardly apart from each other. The only time Kate is not with Betty is when she's with Leon (so the singing) or with Vernon, but not because she's with other people.hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-61793028573162699202013-02-21T06:44:44.380+10:302013-02-21T06:44:44.380+10:30But where would Vernon have experience of gay wome...But where would Vernon have experience of gay women, I don't know. Ok, the Rowleys probably hanged out preaching damnation outside bars, clubs, etc so he would have seen some drunken sexual shennigans and possibly cross dressing women. Also, Vernon, like other men then and now, would not like any woman that stands up the him, questions his authority, especially over something like his daughter (which he believe to be owning, body and soul). And Betty doesn't pull her punches with him. When he first comes to the house, he's in the room with Kate and Betty comes back from the movies. Vernon is close to the door, Kate is on the other side of the room, Betty walks past Vernon towards Kate asking if there's a problem here, Kate responds 'it's my father, he was just leaving' and Betty says, incredulous and annoyed says 'Your father??'. Vernon smiles/smirks and says to Betty 'It's a pleasure' and Betty responds 'Not for me mister!'. So before Betty stood up to him Vernon was not against Betty, did not see the sin in her. But the minute Betty stood up to him and did this to protect Kate, she became the sinner, the deviant. Vernon judges the world in Biblical terms, friendship, sisterhood or just general human kindness are not concepts he accepts or understands so Betty's protection of Kate must come (in his mind) from a sexual possession. I think Betty would have stood up for any woman that she felt she needed to protect not just one that she in love with. <br><br>Yes, like you say Cathy, in times of big social changes, religious preachers up the ante with their preaching. We start the show with Vernon preaching 'sinners, our war is not merely a fight against hitler. It's our path to deliverance<br>untold demons, they lie in wait for us overseas'. His natural instict and desire for wrath and upheaval is well served by the actual war going on and the uncertainty that comes with it. We always see Vernon and the family at night. Try to imagine Vernon on a sunny day, in a pastoral setting, it just doesn't go, does it?<br><br>There's another thought that crossed my mind, though it's probably far fetched. He comes looking for Kate when her mother is sick. Kate offers to send money but Vernon is not after the money. He punishes Kate even for looking at another man (he sees that as the 'beast within' that she must vanquish - or that he will by brute force: crushing her hand, lashing her). When Kate wants to run, one of her brothers starts screaming for Vernon. The question is does Vernon want Kate to come back to take her mother's place, including in his bed?<br><br>When Kate is about to run away, she wants to, but she's still afraid and her mum encourages her and is the one who has arranged the papers (which, as we see later on when Kate has to obtain a forged security clearance, is no small task - what did her mum have to do and how did she manage to do it). This is the scene with her mum:<br><br>Her mum gives her an envelope, tells her the she knows the address, that her new name is Kate Andrews and that the family will be going up north the enxt day<br>Kate is fearful of Vernon finding her<br>her mum counters with 'we talked about this, there's no life for you here'<br>Kate gets ready to go when one of her brothers appears and starts screaming for Vernon<br>Vernon appears, grabs Kate and tells her 'though shall not...' (I don't understand the word he uses, it seems 'strain')<br>Kate pushes him over in a quite remarcable scene (even Vernon is shocked by the force with which Kate pushes him out of her way) and runs.hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-35962889788648157812013-02-21T06:43:46.452+10:302013-02-21T06:43:46.452+10:30So I watched again all episodes (s1 and s2). I wan...So I watched again all episodes (s1 and s2). I wanted to see if there were more clues with regards to Vernon and religion.<br>I've not done this before so this is only my second viewing. And the conclusion? I have no doubt about Kate having romantic feelings for Betty. <br>I didn't watch looking for this, but I did pay more attention to what was happening with Betty and Kate than I did when I first watched the show as it happened, one episode a week and taking in the whole ensemble of characters and stories.<br>When you focus on Betty and Kate it is really very obvious that Kate is into Betty. From the first episode, with no going backwards. It's wonderful! But it's not a coming out story, it's a falling for somebody story (for both Kate and Betty).<br><br>I didn't think it was possible but having seen it again I have an higher appreciation for the show. If you take just episode 1, it's a masterpiece, everything is set in play there, the themes, the characters, the times and with such clarity and attention to detail. From the very first scene (when we see first see Kate, smiling, looking at a woman with red coat and red shoes getting into a truck with soldiers) to the very last, at VicMu, Gladys walking onto the factory floor for the first time, with 'A hundred years from Today' (published in 1933) playing in the background:<br>'life is such a great adventure<br>learn to live it as you go<br>no one in the world can censure<br>what we do here bellow'<br><br>oh and yes, Charlotte is soooo freaking good! <br><br>Before I delve into that though, a bit about Vernon, religion and homosexuality in Canada at the time.<br>Well, there's very little evidence about homosexuality in Canada before ...as late as the post WWII period. Sure, Canada had some legal provisions about 'buggery' in the body of laws that in inherited as a colony. Sure, religious people in Canada had the same biblical references about male homosexuality being one of the reason for the wrath on sodoma & gomorrah. But these are things in the background.<br>There are a handful of scattered mentions in papers/writings of male homosexuality, but these are also in the background. None about female homosexuality. Not even a bit of what was happening in Victorian Britain.<br>The timeline of homosexuality (as a concept in popular culture, society and laws and as a rights issue) in Canada seems to start around 1960 and to be part of the emancipation movements of the period.<br><br>So yeah, a bohemian like Russell Joseph, the guy coming to VicMu to film 'Betty the bomb girl' (as recruitment newsreel), does look at Betty and sees somebody who does her share (of lies) every day. But he's a guy with three former wives (well, actually 2 since wife number 1 and 3 are the same person). And he's a girls' guy who responds to a guys' girl like Gladys. He's not homophobic or anything, just that he will sense any woman who doesn't flirt with him or with whom there is no potential for flirting and assume that it is because she is interested in women. <br>Besides, he exists in a permissive bohemian world. And Betty does accuse him of lying (in his work and about her specifically) and punches him with quite the hook.hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-18013615080002977412013-02-19T06:33:47.776+10:302013-02-19T06:33:47.776+10:30And some more thoughts on Kate, because it always ...And some more thoughts on Kate, because it always struck me as remarkable that someone who suffered abuse and has just assumed a secret identity (and is in constant fear of being found out) would be so open and trusting with Betty. It's almost like she has this profound instinctual trust in her from the moment Betty shows her how to close the door (which is also such a great symbol for Betty creating a safe space for her). There's also the moment when she tries to fake her security papers and instead of hiding the fact from Betty she just blurts out the entire story - trusting that Betty isn't going to go to Lorna or to the police, which is such an immense step really. That in addition to the physical intimacy (yes, the HANDS - @bnofree, you just reminded me of the fact that this whole interpretation of hands very likely also applies to Tara in <i>Buffy the Vampire Slayer</i>, because once you mentioned Joss Whedon, a couple of scenes flashed in front of my eyes) is quite incredible for someone who spent her entire childhood afraid of an abusive father, who probably had to shut away a good part of herself just to survive in that family (there is the literal juxtaposition of Vernon crushing her hand in their very first scene and Betty kissing them in the finale). <br><br>So about Kate being aware of Betty's feelings before the kiss... I agree that she seems to know what is about to happen before Betty actually moves in for the kiss (and kisses back for a split second). I have a hard time putting this into words but there are definitely a lot of different forces at work in Kate Andrews, contradictory feelings, and as much of a mystery as she can be, sometimes things come to the surface (in her eyes, in her singing) that she isn't entirely aware of herself. I think part of her wasn't completely surprised by Betty's feelings (also, Kate isn't NAIVE. She didn't have a chance to have experiences that other girls went through growing up, but she seems to be aware of what is happening - even in that first scene, when she watching the soldiers and the girl, and also evident in her reaction to the forger's suggestion). <br><br>Betty in the scene with Teresa - you're totally right about Betty's body language in the scene. Teresa is the one reaching out, touching her face, rubbing her feet, caressing her shoulder, etc. If I was predicting the rest of the season, I'd say Teresa has probably found something she wasn't really looking for as well. <br>cathy leaveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-63217465212794025152013-02-19T06:05:56.789+10:302013-02-19T06:05:56.789+10:30Thanks to the link. I was aware of the fact that t...Thanks to the link. I was aware of the fact that there was a judicial distinction between male and female homosexuality in many countries (including Austria, where it was only abolished in 2004). <br>You're right, Kate does seem to feel more strongly about this issue (the "That's disgusting" reaction to the kiss) than she does about all the other things going on around her. I didn't pay much attention before because you'd expect it of a contemporary religious fanatic, but this probably wasn't as high on the agenda in 1942. I do see Vernon as the kind of person that would have been extremely troubled by the changes during the war - women working in factories, being away home, being independent, living together rather than with their families (and just a by the way, I did picture him as the kind of person that would have issues with women wearing trousers). Could it just be an issue that became more prominent with very religious people because gender roles were changing and women were taking up positions previously held by men (this is probably researchable, whether there was a surge of debate or awareness of homosexuality during that time). <br>How he realized that Betty was gay... He doesn't initially (the film director did, but he moves in a different world than Vernon does, obviously), in their first confrontation - and we don't see what happens between him and Kate afterwards, before Betty finds them, but I kind of thought that whatever horrible thing he did to Kate, made her tell him what happened. That whole line about "What kind of life" sounded like something he made her say, he planted in her head. The whole scene is acted so brilliantly because (at least I always got the feeling) there's this intense difference between Kate and Marion, and she switches between the two during the goodbye scene (just the change in her eyes between the monologue and the "goodbye" - Charlotte Hegele is SO freaking good). <br><br>I mean, I'd be really interested in hearing more about Kate growing up, and I like the theory that Vernon was suspicious because of how she interacted with other girls. <br><br>About the scars: there must have been a lot of off-screen conversations between Kate and Betty, but I'm not sure if we ever got confirmation that Kate outright told Betty about the abuse, or if Betty is just making a (well-founded) assumption when she says "I know he put them there" in the finale. <br>cathy leaveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-84247598499829623142013-02-17T16:31:34.451+10:302013-02-17T16:31:34.451+10:30@CathyLeaves yeah i love that scene where Betty so...@CathyLeaves yeah i love that scene where Betty softens after Kate pleads to not have her fired. And the way she places her hand over Kates to steady her while she pours the amotol. Which- actually is the beginning of their 'hand' symbolism. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Firefly and i think it might of been Joss Whedon who said that a character who uses their hands a lot or has the camera focus on their hands is meant to symbolise good/purity. I think it has to do with being open (as opposed to say, hands in pockets which is traditionally read as being withdrawn or secretive). Also, hands of a healer etc. They actually make a point of this with the character of Simon in Firefly, but anyway, i digress. <br><br>There are so many instances of Kate-Betty hand connection - the one mentioned, Kate taking Betty's hands to dance (x2), Kate rubbing Betty's sore shoulder on the piano chair after the factory incident, Betty kissing Kate's hands first before going in to kiss her, the nail polish scene, Kate tending to Betty's hand after she cut it in the Nazi cage, and probably numerous others i can't recall. I don't think this is a coincidence, especially considering the Nazi scene, Betty really could have been hurt/cut/injured anywhere but i can't help but think the hand gash was engineered so Kate could later take Betty's hand and tend to her wound. <br><br>It really highlights a level of intimacy these two share which is quite rare and meaningful for both. Noticably, in the post sex scene with theresa, watch Betty's stance/body language in relation to Theresa (closed versus open) and critically, note that Betty's hands are clasped together the entire time. Oh Betty, she's no Kate i know! Gah show - can't believe we have to wait 5 more weeks!bnofeenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-36236666003078456652013-02-17T12:57:49.075+10:302013-02-17T12:57:49.075+10:30One more thing:As Kate is about to leave with Vern...One more thing:<br><br>As Kate is about to leave with Vernon, at the end of season 1, after Vernon hits Betty and tells Kate to 'tell her, Marion, and Kate says 'I don't love this anymore... And I never wanted you' and then sweetly and in tears herself she says 'Goodbye'.<br><br>Interesting choice of words. Did she love 'this' before Vernon appeared or if Vernon wasn't standing next to her? Or did she love 'this' before Betty kissed her but not after?<br><br>By 'I never wanted you' does Kate mean the same thing that Betty says to Teresa when she says she wasn't looking for anything (but so glad that something, somebody found her because she's been waiting for a while)?<br><br>Is she saying 'I never wanted you' in the sense that I never wanted to have to explore that thing which I know is in me.<br><br>Like in the scene with Leon in the last episode, she does not say ' but I don't love you Betty', not even with Vernon standing next to her.<br><br>lots and lots of smoke...hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-16930848956084054182013-02-17T12:41:54.377+10:302013-02-17T12:41:54.377+10:30just a correction:Deuteronomy 22:5 says"The w...just a correction:<br><br>Deuteronomy 22:5 says<br>"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."<br><br>But Deuteronomy is a book in the Hebrew Bible and I think even Vernon got past the women wearing trousers issue<br><br>This site goes into detail about the Ruth-Naomi story:<br>http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/ruth_naomi.html<br><br>So I'm still wondering how the lesbian issue was so prominent with the Rowleys.hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-78736085052849934282013-02-17T12:19:01.302+10:302013-02-17T12:19:01.302+10:30Gosh, I forgot that Kate took a different name and...Gosh, I forgot that Kate took a different name and can't remember why she chose Kate Andrews.<br><br>I don't know that much about the Bible either but from what I remember there are lots of places where it talks about man-woman love and relationships (and the Wedding at Canaa being where Jesus performs the first miracle), only one place where it talks about friendship between women (Ruth and Naomi) and then the thing with Sodoma and Gomorrah in relation to male homosexuality.<br>Female homosexuality as a defined concept (in society and in religion) only really came about in the 20th century and even now is seen as a very different light than male homosexuality. This articles explains a little bit why:<br>http://www.gaychristian101.com/are-lesbians-treated-the-same-as-gays-in-the-bible.html<br>To a certain extent, love and desire between women went deeper between 19th century women than 20th century women without it being condemned. <br><br>I might be clutching at straws here but it just seems a bit odd that of all the things Kate had been brainwashed about this should be the biggest issue. I don't remember her saying anything about Vera and her soldiers or Lorna and Marco or Gladys soon-to-be-married and men but there's a lot of smoke when it comes to Betty. <br><br>Yes, in episode 6 of the first season, when Vernon comes the second time, Kate says: 'What kind of life? I make things that kill people. I debase god’s gift. I sing and dance of sin. I drink, smoke, consort with deviants" but that's about the only time she expresses having a problem with anything else other than Betty.<br><br>Also, immediately after she says to Betty that she likes her too, at the piano, with a smile on her face and slightly confused as to why such self-evident truths (the fact that her and betty like each other) need to be said, right after that moment, her expression changes to serious and then to fearful of the ominous thing that is going to happen (Betty leaning forward to kiss her). Betty misses this because she's already gone into the moment (the massive, courageous step).<br>Kate, who seems SO unaware of anything to do with boys, even of the most simple of things, does anticipate this thing with Betty and for a very brief moment even responds. <br><br>And this is also the thing that makes her go back to her father's world, rather than or more than any other thing. Letting herself be photographed for other people's sexual purposes should be an even bigger sin for a religious person (lots of Bible talk on the sin of prostitution and sexual anything outside of marriage and procreation). <br><br>So it makes me wonder if Kate had the experience before, of feelings for, with, by another woman. More so, if she had the experience before and thought it was a sin, did she stay with her father as the only way to be virtuous in this respect? <br><br>Her father also seems to see rather too quickly the 'sin' inside Betty. I don't know how many fathers, religious or not, even now, second time they meet one of their daughter's friend says that about this friend if he's never had cause before to suspect anything about his daughter. I mean, ok, Betty might not be your typical girly girl (though, yeah, the mere fact that she stands up to him goes against his idea of how women should be) but does she scream gay and has Vernon had so much experience of gay women that he can spot one just by looking at her? <br>Kate, again, knows little about virtuous boys but knows straight away about deviant girls. <br><br>Also, I can't remember, were we ever given an explanation for the scars on her back, the reason for them?hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-61088130139936159042013-02-17T07:15:05.381+10:302013-02-17T07:15:05.381+10:30@bnofree: so I just re-watched the first episode f...@bnofree: so I just re-watched the first episode for research purposes (oh what a sacrifice :) and the way the show builds their mutual... attraction? fascination? let's call it connection for now, with each other is so great, because I think with Kate it's almost immediate, from the moment Betty happens to be the one helping her so competently with her door (even though she turns around immediately with no interest at all to start a conversation). With Betty it seems to be two things, that also happen to correspond with the two (contradictory?) aspects of Kate's character: when she almost causes the explosion and the way she explains to Betty that the factory is all she has (OF COURSE Betty would understand that) somehow compels Betty not to rat her out to Lorna AND to show her how to pour the amatol (that little reassuring smile always gets me), the scars on her back, but even more so I think the singing and the moment when Kate grabs her hands to try a twirl with her. I love that moment so much because it's almost like Kate is giving something back for when she was new at the boarding house and Betty was the first one to sort of reach out to her, even if it was in Betty's particular huffy manner. So what I think they maybe recognize in each other is their respective loneliness? And you're so right, with all the terrible things that have happened to Kate, it's so easy to overlook how resourceful and strong she is (didn't Betty at one point mention that Kate seems to fit right in after a couple of weeks while she still feels out of place? Kate's been forced to act and pretend all her life, and I got the feeling that with Vernon, it really was a matter of life and death). <br><br>+ btw I'd be glad to type something half as well-structured on solid ground :)<br><br>@hubertpage: It seems significant that the first time we ever meet Kate is a scene where Vernon punishes her brutally for looking at a man the wrong way. I'm pretty sure he skipped over the passages referring to love (I know next to nothing about the Bible but it's really no surprise he left out those passages from The Song of Solomon!), but he seems like the kind of radical fanatist who would have been particularly keen on picking out everything that ensures his control over his family, everything that allows him to police Kate's behaviour (for Vernon, religion is a tool that gives him power). Leviticus fits right in, doesn't it? And then when Kate came back we know the kind of stuff he was preaching and made her preach against (exactly the kind of sins he saw her committing before). If he left out the passages referring to homosexuality before, he certainly focused on them once she returned - and if her mother was a source of comfort to her before she left, she wasn't around any more once Kate returned (and I think it's also important to remember that Vernon wasn't just authoritative and brutal, but capable of brainwashing Kate with the physical and mental torture he exerted). <br>This is speculation but I don't think that the Rowleys were ever part of a bigger religious community, Vernon was literally the only authority figure and point of reference for Kate, and they probably spent her entire youth moving around so that it was impossible for her to build up any kind of relationship outside her own family.cathy leaveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06105494192400149730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-4419965709932736532013-02-16T23:35:03.054+10:302013-02-16T23:35:03.054+10:30Yes, that's a good way of putting it 'The ...Yes, that's a good way of putting it 'The difference with Betty and Kate is that Betty has most of pieces of the puzzle', but they're both working at that puzzle.<br><br>I liked the fact that the writers gave us another clue as to Betty's 'otherness' and to her jumpiness. Imagine Betty at the age when you get a sense of yourself in the world: you're German and you like girls. Two things that you can't change, can't do anything about but you know would cause you problems if they were found out. So then you're always ready to defend yourself, to fight if anybody was to found out.<br><br>This might be far fetched but it struck me that Kate seems to know nothing about boys (really nothing) but she does knows straight away that with girls is 'sin'. There's something that doesn't add up. Clearly there was some talk in the McAndrews family about sex or at least coupling as a concept was mentioned, otherwise how do you explain the sin/deviant concept? Vernon skipped those passages in the Bible that talked about sexual/romantic love between men and women and didn't allow Kate to talk to boys so he almost wanted her to be asexual, barren, dedicated just to him. But he had to say something about sexual/romantic love to explain why it is wrong (according to him and the Bible) to have this love with a person of your own gender. <br>You could say that he talked of the 'sinful' love because he was all about sins and he denied her the 'virtuous' love because he was a selfish, abusive bastard.<br>But you could also wonder if the talked about 'sinful' love because he saw Kate having some feelings of that kind for girls as she was growing up, maybe even 'catch' her acting on those feeelings.<br><br>Also, as much as you are not allowed to talk to boys, when the hormones start raging, you're still after boys and you are not after girls if that's how you're wired. I mean, ok, you're not allowed to talk to them, but you still have boys in church, you're surrounded by them, they are surrounded by you and full of hormones so some flirting does happens, despite the prohibition. But Kate seems to be totally awkward when it comes to flirting with boys.<br>When Marco tried to teach her and she touches him on the arm but then quickly pulls her hand, shudders and she says 'I can't' in the same way that you would be if somebody told you to pat an aligator on the head.<br><br>So Vernon thought that he had all the bases covered when it comes to keeping sex & Kate totally separate. With boys, by actually denying day to day contact. With girls, by presumably allowing day to day contact, but making it a sin instead. He was so convinced of the hold he had on Kate and the righteousness of his religion that he staked them on Kate not liking girls. Th irony...<br><br>hubertpage<br><br>hubertpagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904411846518028465.post-80547650961765903012013-02-16T11:37:13.937+10:302013-02-16T11:37:13.937+10:30I agree with the parallels between Betty and Kate&...I agree with the parallels between Betty and Kate's stories. When I wonder about what drew them to each other in the very beginning - apart from Betty's innate sense of protectiveness and Kate's early vulnerability - i think perhaps they related to their shared sense of otherness. Whether this is read as being queer otherness doesn't really matter. One of Betty's biggest dragons - which you point out- is the fear of not fitting in; the fear of not being perceived as normal, or perceiving herself as being "normal". This is why the 'deviant' slur hit so hard apart from the very rea possibility of losing her job. Kate comes from another position of being 'othered', by virtue of living a sheltered upbringing, not being able to consort with boys etc. They do this parallel really well in s1. Kate, who i really think is quite savvy and clued on, acknowledges this in Betty (it doesn't matter what people think of you, just the important ones) and makes it okay, makes it feel safe to be herself. Eventually, both try to play the roles society has cast them into (using poor Ivan as the willing actor, or prop really). They did so for different reasons, and here is why i feel like Kate's journey to discovering her sense of identity will be more rugged and tumultuous. She is in many ways a blank canvas, a new life - Kate Andrews - and so many possibilities of who to be. And the thing is, when we choose bits and pieces of our personality (consciously or unconsciously), we are rejecting other sides, potentialities of who we could be. Kate really has so much exploring to do and is grasping i think between two selves -a self that she thinks she should be, and a self who is authentic to who she is (sound familiar?). The difference with Betty and Kate is that Betty has most of pieces of the puzzle. She knows for better part who is is, she's likely known these unnatural feelings and desires of hers for some time, though fought against them. Kate, and it breaks my heart, Kate has such a long way to go you guys!! And that's why i'm really glad they've gone the way they have. I feel like Kate (and Betty) are going to learn the most without the comfort of each others support. Sometimes pain and rejection are the fastest way to growth and learning. <br><br>Arrrrrggghhh i typed this on my phone on a bus so sorry for bad structure/spelling and such!!bnofeenoreply@blogger.com